The system isn’t formed based on the wills of individuals, nor is there an inherent “nice” or “mean” quality to people. If we all decide we want to live in a perfect utopia, that still won’t take form, because that’s not how societal progression works. We live in capitalism, because capitalism emerged from preceding modes of production like feudalism. It wasn’t a choice people made, but an economic progression on the basis of private property and free-moving capital, which leads us to today where a tiny handful own the lion’s share of production.
Capitalism is riddled with contradictions, however, and these contradictions sharpen over time. We move onto socialism by organizing, where we can actually take control of production and run it along a common plan to suit the needs of the people.
Edit: figured it’s a good chance to plug my introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list, if what I said makes sense to you!
More and more I see that a lot of people who think they’re “nice” are just lazy and largely uprincipled people who assume that they’re doing good simply because they have good intentions and they’re not actively creating problems.
Gork, what is capitalism?
To look at people in capitalist society and conclude that human nature is egoism, is like looking at people in a factory where pollution is destroying their lungs and saying that it is human nature to cough.
No. We live in a society that favors good people for the most part and it’s getting better, just not for the US and it’s toadies.
And all the bad people from the good countries move to the US so that they can beg the US to invade their own nation in order to become toadie leader #53.What’s happening right now is that this US hegemonic system is falling apart.
I don’t think that there’s more assholes than decent people. I think the assholes just stick out more.
People who don’t realize that tolerance is a social contract will tolerate assholism, which abets the assholing.
That’s got to stop.
Yeah. Now stop being afraid and stand up to the fucking bullies. Now watch as they change the definition of “intolerant”.
“Standing up to a bully that wants to kill you? That’s Intolerant!”.
Sound familiar? The nazi with the giant hole in his neck? Oh no, I’m being intolerant. The christian terrorist nazi psychopath with the giant hole in his neck.
You won’t have a chance to be intolerant of the nazis very soon, if you don’t start fighting against the nazis in effective ways.
Ok but how do we deal with… you know… those people who destroy community for profits, who undermine us by exposing us with global competition, the people who promote laws like “right to work” and “no child left behind” to break our organizations against their power asymmetry while making us dumber and weaker, the people who rig the system with a smile without saying even one slur ?
Do we have to tolerate them if they duck us by the rules ?
That makes sense actually
WTF didn’t Popper include that obvious fact ?
Was it just taken for granted in the post world wars that assholes catch bullets ?I do wish we could stop confusing tolerance with active support though. I don’t need to be on your team to tolerate you or your lifestyle. In fact, we don’t even need to acknowledge each other’s existence to be tolerant of one another. We just need to let each other exist unimpeded.
There are more assholes than good people because assholery typically delivers better results in terms of wealth, power, and status, and good people have to accept a lower social status in order to maintain their goodness, but most people don’t fall into either category.
But the vast majority of people fall into an apathetic middle ground where they don’t really think too much about any kind of moral consistency and act according to paths they’re already on and the rules those paths require.
You need to be a bit of an asshole to stand up against assholes. Nice people dont want to be assholes and bend over backwards to make concessions and accommodations.
Sadly, I think that’s the way it’s been since the beginning of humanity and I don’t see it ever changing.
Richard Dawkins lays this out nicely in The Selfish Gene.
Education is the best way to fight ignorance. Yes, there wasn’t much education more than a hundred or two years ago.
There are plenty of places on Earth right now that are functioning societies with mostly happy people. So stop being a defeatist pig headed asshole, please.
Get some education. Get others education. Keep educating if you want the world to act educated, and not barbaric. It’s really that simple, and it’s why the barbarians always gut all education first.
Seems like I struck a nerve.
Considering you know nothing about me , it’s interesting that you call me uneducated. Yet haven’t bothered to educate yourself about me.
I think you 2 might be 2 sides of the same coin. You started with “Sadly” which would infer you don’t think it’s ideal but simply the reality. You’ve probably been called a pessimist more than once for expressing your realistic opinions.
On one side we want progress and equality, on the other, we recognize that tribes, cities, and nations, were built on conquering others. That mindset idealistically should be in the past but we of course still see too many examples of how relevant those issues are.
The assholes generally take charge because they are self-aggrandizing assholes. I genuinely believe most people are good and trying to just get by. It is very hard to not be distracted by the mountains of daily life struggles one has to wade through because of the power hungry assholes.
They make daily struggles to distract you from them. Really.
If you can’t afford to eat, you can’t organize protests.
If you can’t afford a phone, you can’t organize protests.
If you can’t afford electricity, you can’t organize protests.
If you have to deal with christian extremist brainwashed children from religious schools, you can’t organize protests.
ETfuckingC…
If you don’t do it soon, you won’t be healthy enough to do it in the future as your healthcare is being taken away.
I know it may seem that way if you’re constantly online these days, but in general most people are just people. Like 80% are mostly good, but human, and may have some minor issues. Probably 10% are Jesus-level good, then 10% are sociopathically evil.
Now, if by society you mean “American capitalism”, then yes that favors assholes who care less about their fellow humans. This flavor of capitalism is inherently selfish and greedy, so those who succeed in it are the most greedy and bad people. Yes people care, but the forces preventing anyone from changing it are the strongest in the history of human civilization with technology too now, that makes it borderline impossible to change the underlying system. Only a major catastrophe caused by capitalism where millions of Americans died would cause the general populace to question the system, but honestly even then who fucking knows.
The assholes are louder or more annoying, but in my experience the vast majority of people are kind.
Selfish, childish, propagandized and mostly unthinking and amoral people are big enough pluralities in certain societies and only an ideological awakening post societal collapse could help it, yes. I mean, if you live in the West for instance, what exactly is stopping you from just “focusing on yourself”, or pushing you to be prosocial and wise? 🤷
It’s the fear or apathy of the asshole to retaliate. I could be on a bus, and there could be an asshole playing music without headphones. Saying something could come with verbal abuse at the least and could end in a physical altercation with or without weapons at worst. As the annoyed passerby, is confronting the asshole worth the effort and risk for quiet?
I love calling people out when I can, but you gotta pick your battles.
This is going to be an unpopular opinion because most people like to think of themselves as nice. I think it’s not so much that there are nice people and assholes, but rather that almost everyone is an asshole some of the time.
