“It’s safe to say that the people who volunteered to “shape” the initiative want it dead and buried. Of the 52 responses at the time of writing, all rejected the idea and asked Mozilla to stop shoving AI features into Firefox.”
Hey all, just a reminder to keep the community rules in mind when commenting on this thread. Criticism in any direction is fine, but please maintain your civility and don’t stoop to ad-hominem etc. Thanks.
don’t stoop to ad-hominem
At this point Ad-hominem is practically the nice name for the business model “enshitification”.
Ad-hominem
in a way that is directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
in a way that relates to or is associated with a particular person.
It’s a good thing LLM models are not people because…
If it can be proven that an LLM bot account is present on the instance masquerading as a human user, I would recommend you report the account for that reason/spam so that it can be investigated and removed per instance rule 4 after evidence is found.
Since they aren’t people, I’d say it’s pointless to reply to them with ad-hominem in the first place since it means nothing to them, and therefore reporting it would be the more effective action to take in any event.
Personally I don’t want AI anywhere.
You want AI in your browser? Just add <your favourite spying ad machine> as a “search engine” option, with a URL like
https://chatgpt.com/?q=%25s, with a shortcut like
@ai. Maybe also add one with a URL with some query pre-written likehttps://chatgpt.com/?q=summarize this page for me: %sas
@aisor something, modern chatbots have the ability to make HTTP requests for you. Then if you want to summarize the page you’re on, you do Ctrl+L Ctrl+C @ais Ctrl+V Enter. There, I solved all your AI needs with 4 shortcuts without literally any client-side code.So much whining… Please get to know the things you attack, before you embarrass yourself.
Do you know what a “build in AI” is? It’s just some algorithms that makes your day easier. And no one steals your data… sigh
It’s a local collection of algorithms, and you are quite safe. You probably already use it in so many ways you can’t count them - it’s just not called “AI” which I guess is the trigger word for you…
So much wtf. Please name one way I use AI without knowing it, and ways that enrage me don’t count.
Using a search engine would be one.
I exclusively use https://noai.duckduckgo.com/
So no.
Nope. The “AI summary” is something I disable on Google and I try to actively avoid it because it enrages me. It’s total dogshit.
The algorithms to determine which pages are most relevant to your query are traditionally seen as AI too. They’re just not labelled as such (which was the point), and predate the current AI hype.
I hadn’t even thought about the “AI modes” that search engines are incorporating nowadays though, so I get the confusion.
That’s a fair point. But search algorithms fall under the “recommender system” umbrella, which are a very different family from the agentic AI we’re discussing here.
Both are AIs, but with very different use cases. In the same way, you could technically classify both your gaming PC and phone as computers, and you’d be correct.
Edit: links
It was my impression that the thread started wasn’t just talking about agentic AI. And I think a lot of the “anti AI folks” here are also angry about recent non-agentic AI additions that Mozilla added, such as e.g. tab recommendations for tab groups.
The post is about the new AI Window feature, and here’s its description from Mozilla’s own announcement:
Now, we’re excited to invite you to help shape the work on our next innovation: an AI Window. It’s a new, intelligent and user-controlled space we’re building in Firefox that lets you chat with an AI assistant and get help while you browse, all on your terms. Completely opt-in, you have full control, and if you try it and find it’s not for you, you can choose to switch it off.
So, definitely agentic.
And I think a lot of the “anti AI folks” here are also angry about recent non-agentic AI additions that Mozilla added, such as e.g. tab recommendations for tab groups.
I’ll speak honestly: I’m not happy with that either. But that’s incidental to this topic. The agentic component is my biggest concern.
Well, then give me a report of everything you use IT for… You phone, apps, tablets, computers, smart tv’s and so forth?
Um, nah… ? I actively avoid half those things and yet use computers constantly. The burden would be on you. So perhaps you can actually give examples that would be true of a lot of people. I feel like you think lemmy users are like most people and just along with what’s popular, but that’s not the case, particularly with computing concerns.
Damn you are not really well, are you? You want me to tell you exactly where you use build in “AI” that helps you make decisions, but you won’t tell me what you use?!? I don’t have to prove anything. My claim stands. I can see that you are using some kind of computer, and the internet. You are using algorithms that act the way AI does… But I guess you are too blind to see… That’s on you. Keep living in your little illusion of a world. 🙃
Damn you are not really well, are you?
Says the person who wants a full inventory of my computing hardware. What a fucking bizarre human.
Well, you wanted me to tell you what AI-like algorithms you were using - and you expect me to do that from no information? You really are not well…
So much whining… Please get to know the things you attack, before you embarrass yourself.
I’m a senior full-stack engineer at a recruitment startup. I’m the one responsible for the AI side of things. We do document analysis of résumés and all kinds of identification documents and photos. We also run various assistant chatbots that interact with users and accept file uploads, do job interviews and much more. I think I know enough not to embarrass myself.
Do you know what a “build in AI” is? It’s just some algorithms that makes your day easier.
No. A “built-in AI” is not a collection of “magic algorithms” that suddenly make life better. Working with AI is some of the worst hours I’ve ever spent of my life. Writing increasingly convoluted prompts to make it follow explicitly stated instructions for the N-th time in order not to misuse tools or output the correct structured data is not magic. It’s an exercise in futility most of the time.
And no one steals your data… sigh
It’s a local collection of algorithms, and you are quite safe.
So… You’re introducing an autonomous agent between you and the web you’re browsing. With the sole purpose of making decisions and taking actions on your behalf.
Aside from all the privacy concerns and assuming that the models actually run locally; all code can have bugs, and worse: this “magic tool” is an amorphous collection of floating point numbers and you can’t debug a neural net’s weights. And this thing is already proven to HALLUCINATE.
If this thing has permission to freely interact with web pages, then sorry, your data will never be safe.
You probably already use it in so many ways you can’t count them - it’s just not called “AI” which I guess is the trigger word for you…
I think you’re the one confusing the terminology.
Oh, you work for Mozilla Firefox, do you?
Being childish and trying to turn what I say into “magic algorithms”
GZ with your made up title, which must be made up, given the crazy ramblings you are making.
The “AI” that Firefox is implementing is not “autonomous” - do look up the definitions, please! It is not sentient, it can’t hallucinate, since it is not sentient. What the big tech are making (their LLM) can’t hallucinate either - they just do something that looks like it, and we put silly terms on it, like hallucinating. You are NOT getting a neural network on your own computer when you install Firefox - now you are just being daft!
You are confused, paranoid and really prove, that you should get to know what you are talking about. sigh
Are you purposefully trolling or just that level of ignorant? I’m done responding here regardless, just curious.
I’ll take that as a no, you are not working for Mozilla. You are being childish by calling it “magic algorithms”. You don’t even know what kind of “AI” FF are talking about…
I would run too, if I were caught in the lies you have spun here.
Those unhappy have another option: use an AI‑free Firefox fork such as LibreWolf, Waterfox, or Zen Browser.
Any idea as to when LibreWolf will be coming out with a mobile browser?
I’ve used the duckduckgo browser for a bit which is nice. You can disable all of the AI features there.
B- but- ✨yaiy window!!1!✨!1!!
Why not just distribute a separate build and call it “Firefox AI Edition” or something? Making this available in the base binary is a big mistake. At least doing so immediately and without testing the waters.
They’re really trying to shove this down our throats aren’t they?
I think Mozilla’s base is privacy focused individuals, a lot of them appreciating firefox’s opensource nature and the privacy hardened firefox forks. From a PR perspective, Firefox will gain users by adamantly going against AI tech.
Maybe their thought process is they’ll gain more users by adopting AI while knowing they’re still the most privacy focused of the major browsers. Where have I seen this mentality before?
Spoiler
The American Democrat party often believes it can get more votes by shifting conservative, believing the more progressive voters will stick pick them because they’re still more progressive than not.
Doesn’t matter what the end-user wants. Corporate greed feeding into technological ignorance is gonna shove it down our throats anyway
I considered using AI to summarize news articles that don’t seem worth the time to read in full (the attention industrial complex is really complicating my existence). But I turned it off and couldn’t find the button to turn it back on.
Hear me out.
This could actually be cool:
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If I could, say, mash in “get rid of the junk in this page” or “turn the page this color” or “navigate this form for me”
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If it could block SEO and AI slop from search/pages, including images.
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If I can pick my own API (including local) and sampling parameters
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If it doesn’t preload any model in RAM.
…That’d be neat.
What I don’t want is a chatbot or summarizer or deep researcher because there are 7000 bajillion of those, and there is literally no advantage to FF baking it in like every other service on the planet.
And… Honestly, PCs are not ready for local LLMs. Not even the most hyper optimized trellis quantization of Qwen3 30B is ‘good enough’ to be reliable for the average person, and it still takes too much CPU RAM. Much less the suboptimal version Mozilla would ship.
You know what would be really cool? If I could just ask AI to turn off the AI in my browser. Now that would be cool.
If I can pick my own API (including local) and sampling parameters
You can do this now:
- selfhost ollama.
- selfhost open-webui and point it to ollama
- enable local models in about:config
- select “local” instead of ChatGPT or w/e.
Hardest part is hosting open-webui because AFAIK it only ships as a docker image.
Edit: s/openai/open-webui
Open WebUI isn’t very ‘open’ and kinda problematic last I saw. Same with ollama; you should absolutely avoid either.
…And actually, why is open web ui even needed? For an embeddings model or something? All the browser should need is an openai compatible endpoint.
The firefox AI sidebar embeds an external open-webui. It doesn’t roll its own ui for chat. Everything with AI is done in the quickest laziest way.
What exactly isn’t very open about open-webui or ollama? Are there some binary blobs or weird copyright licensing? What alternatives are you suggesting?
https://old.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/1kfhkal/open_webui_is_no_longer_open_source/
https://old.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1mncrqp/ollama/
Basically, they’re both using their popularity to push proprietary bits, which their devleopment is shifting to. They’re enshittifying.
In addition, ollama is just a demanding leech on llama.cpp that contributes nothing back, while hiding the connection to the underlying library at every opportunity. They do scummy things like.
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Rename models for SEO, like “Deepseek R1” which is really the 7b distill.
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It has really bad default settings (like a 2K default context limit, and default imatrix free quants) which give local LLM runners bad impressions of the whole ecosystem.
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They mess with chat templates, and on top of that, create other bugs that don’t exist in base llama.cpp
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Sometimes, they lag behind GGUF support.
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And other times, they make thier own sloppy implementations for ‘day 1’ support of trending models. They often work poorly; the support’s just there for SEO. But this also leads to some public GGUFs not working with the underlying llama.cpp library, or working inexplicably bad, polluting the issue tracker of llama.cpp.
I could go on and on with examples of their drama, but needless to say most everyone in localllama hates them. The base llama.cpp maintainers hate them, and they’re nice devs.
You should use llama.cpp llama-server as an API endpoint. Or, alternatively the ik_llama.cpp fork, kobold.cpp, or croco.cpp. Or TabbyAPI as an ‘alternate’ GPU focused quantized runtime. Or SGLang if you just batch small models. Llamacpp-python, LMStudo; literally anything but ollama.
As for the UI, thats a muddier answer and totally depends what you use LLMs for. I use mikupad for its ‘raw’ notebook mode and logit displays, but there are many options. Llama.cpp has a pretty nice built in one now.
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I certainly want it. The current anti-AI wave is irrational.
That isn’t to say that AI is not a major potential existential problem when it goes to AGI and to ASI, or that AI in the hands of private Oligarch psychos are not a catastrophe, but the current hatred is of a different kind, are off the charts, actually evil, and have no relation to the tool it self, or the potential existential risks. The group have already been consumed by hatred and unfortunately, they are now also attacking ordinary Lemmy users that ‘admit’ that they use AI, or ‘admit’ that they treat it as a ‘friend’. You have all seen this. People just mentioning AI are downvoted and hated upon, people that use AI always get a “AI slop !” remark with them on their way. A large percentage, like this post, are subtly attacking that others even have a choice of utilizing AI in their daily life - because they hate it. This is kinder-garden level bullying !
Most of the daily worries of AI, stems from the societal system we are in. Job loss (It’s build into the current system!), ‘AI’-slop (as if Capitalism didn’t create slop?), ‘Copyright’ idiocy that are only necessary in a combative type of society, AI+biz out-competing ordinary people, becoming poor, homeless etc, big monetary/political powers consolidating more power by misusing AI, an incredible amount of propaganda/marketing and manipulation and so on. The old system is incompatible with AI, so people are seeing things go in a wrong way, and feeling the cracks and dissonance between an old failing system, and the new possibilities we have. We - humanity - are in a transitional phase, where the old systems we follow, are no longer adequate, and will implode/convulse in to a new stable system. But the old system is stubbornly trying to keep going, while not having any answers, or any will, to adapt or even discuss the internal dissonance that are accelerating. THAT is the problem! Almost all current ‘AI’ problems that result in this hate backlash - comes directly from the failing type of society we have - not the tool/technology it self ! People should focus on the root-problem, not the tool it-self, and certainly not other users that need it.
This whole group of angry people need to chill tf out and admit to them selves that they are mis-directing their hatred (valid or not), and that their hate are currently harming other ordinary people - not much different from them selves. Stop bullying others just because you can’t handle the inherent failings of the old crap system, a system build on pure combative ideology, “by the oligarchs, for the oligarchs”. Stop fighting for ‘Jobs’, and start fighting for a system where we don’t need ‘Jobs’, Stop fighting for ‘Copyright’, or any of the other insane protectionist ‘patches’ to the current bunkers society/ideology, and start fighting for a society where we don’t have to hoard ‘property’ to survive. Fight for a society that are compatible with where we are technologically/philosophically, one that are actually designed/intended to be compatible with peoples needs and their humble wishes for a safe and stimulating future.
Lastly, being worried/focused on an ASI takeover of humanity, or common people being (more) controlled by the Oligarchs/Big Corp, etc, is completely legit, and it absolutely needs to be talked about, but this group of haters is just hating ‘AI’ and people using it in general, for the wrong reasons, and then lashing out towards those people that enjoy/need it now. (Good for you if you don’t need it in this society).
This bullying has to stop. In the mean time, I and many others, are starting to use current AI to design/build systems that bring us all over this ideological molasses we are in, and land us on the other side as fast and safely as we can. You should probably do the same instead of being consumed by anger, but that is your choice to make. Thanks for reading.
In the mean time, I and many others, are starting to use current AI to design/build systems that bring us all over this ideological molasses we are in
Gee wiz mister are you a REAL prompt engineer? No foolin?
Ok. Then please answer this because it’s driving me crazy: what problem does adding AI to Firefox solve?
Whole lotta words to say you’re lonely and friendless as shit.
Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but how can you be aware of this fact
I don’t know whether the negative reactions reflect the majority of Firefox users or are just a noisy minority. Mozilla, after all, likely has a clearer view of the whole user base.
and then still assume that nobody wants something based on a non-representative sample of 52 comments?
I am actually curious if gentoo community sees a noticeable increase in time for updating/installing with all these new AI features on everything.
