The narrative that hamas was created simply to oppose the “secular” plo don’t work because Hamas collaborate with non Islamists .
In trying to undermine their opponent Israel helped create a new one that was more violent and aggressive. It initially looks as though this was a mistake by Israel but it was the subtext for the subsequent genocide in Gaza.
Israel can make mistakes. Israel did not expect Hamas to become as strong and didn’t expect a revolution in Iran, making Iran the main backer of all major resistance groups toward Israel. As a settler-colonial power, the only choice is for resistance groups to be more violent and aggressive, but without retaliating on innocent civilians. The peaceful way was already tried. The situation in the West Bank is another failure of the peaceful method.
Without Hamas, Israel wouldn’t have been forced to remove the settlers and rely on external occupation to avoid casualties.
You give people too much credit, the evidence all around us including but not limited to what is happening in Gaza should be proof of this. Mass media indoctrination of islamophobia over the last 30 years has achieved its goal of manufacturing the consent required to dehumanise Muslim people in the Middle East.
Islamophobia is the hate of Islam, not only Islamists, so Islamophobic people would still not support Palestine when the PLO is also majoritarily Muslim. Having non-Muslim resistance groups as the most powerful groups will never happen.
If people understood there would never have been a genocide in Gaza.
Wrong. If no countries had recognized and built relations with Israel after the Nakba, the genocide would never have happened.
Before Hamas even existed, the Western countries’ populations were more supportive of Israel than Palestine. Imagine saying “I support Israel” just after the Nakba, where 850,000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed, including 50,000 Christians.
The narrative that hamas was created simply to oppose the “secular” plo don’t work because Hamas collaborate with non Islamists .
Again, I never said this, I don’t know where you’re getting this from. I said that Israel assisted many non-secular groups, what became Hamas was merely one of them. Israel created nothing, they certainly assisted them in their early days.
Your assertion that because Hamas works with non Islamists they couldn’t have been created to oppose the secular PLO makes no logical sense. I don’t even understand how this point makes sense in your head?
Islamophobia is the hate of Islam, not only Islamists, so Islamophobic people would still not support Palestine when the PLO is also majoritarily Muslim
You really just don’t understand what I am saying do you? You also clearly don’t understand the game Israel is playing here. You do not understand the multifaceted plan that the Israeli leadership is currently playing out to steal the entirely of Palestine. You are focusing on one small issue but completely missing the bigger picture. I have tried but I don’t think I can help you understand.
Wrong. If no countries had recognized and built relations with Israel after the Nakba, the genocide would never have happened.
Again missing the point completely.
Before Hamas even existed, the Western countries’ populations were more supportive of Israel than Palestine. Imagine saying “I support Israel” just after the Nakba
It’s like you don’t even understand the difference between the media landscapes then and now or how now that people can actually see what is going on their opinions are shifting. This is an important moment in Palestine’s future and you are choosing to fight a pointless fight on the early days of Hamas because in your mind Hamas mush be pure, any Israeli contamination, even funding in their early days somehow delegitimises Hamas. It does not delegitimise Hamas one bit, purity tests like this only harm revolution. Sometimes it takes a bad thing to kill an even worse thing.
Your assertion that because Hamas works with non Islamists they couldn’t have been created to oppose the secular PLO makes no logical sense. I don’t even understand how this point makes sense in your head?
It make perfect sense. Hamas is a resistance group which main goal is ending of the occupation. If Hamas agreed with PLO view of palestinian liberation they would definitely collaborate with them against Israel. I don’t even understand how this point do not makes sense in your head?
You really just don’t understand what I am saying do you? You also clearly don’t understand the game Israel is playing here. You do not understand the multifaceted plan that the Israeli leadership is currently playing out to steal the entirely of Palestine. You are focusing on one small issue but completely missing the bigger picture. I have tried but I don’t think I can help you understand.
I perfectly understand what you are saying. You think Israel is such a very smart country that they can’t make mistakes and just created hamas to counter the PLO to gives them an perfect excuse to continue genocide and occupation . You know my arguments are strong that’s why you avoid them. That’s why you ignored that I said Israel was vilifying the plo and said the same exact think about them as they say against Hamas
This is an important moment in Palestine’s future and you are choosing to fight a pointless fight on the early days of Hamas b
This is an important moment for Palestine but you decided to repeat the bs about Hamas the biggest resistance group is simply a tool of Israel so people demand Hamas to be dissolved before Palestine get free. The usa can stop support for Israel today, Palestinians would still need armed resistance to end the occupation .
even funding in their early days somehow delegitimises Hamas. It does not delegitimise Hamas one bit, purity tests like this only harm revolution. Sometimes it takes a bad thing to kill an even worse thing.
It does delegitimize Hamas because it make them look like simply a tool for israel and if it get dissolved Israel could no longer make excuses to continue genocide
in your mind Hamas mush be pure
Hamas is not pure in my mind . Just because they are a resistance group they can’t get away with war criminals. In a process of Truth and Reconciliation Hamas members involved in war crimes should be held accountable just like the israeli war criminals . I don’t support it’s political ideology
It make perfect sense. Hamas is a resistance group which main goal is ending of the occupation. If Hamas agreed with PLO view of palestinian liberation they would definitely collaborate with them against Israel
It does not magically invalidate the possibility Israel financed Hamas in their early days, if anything it makes it even more suspicious.
I perfectly understand what you are saying. You think Israel is such a very smart country that they can’t make mistakes and just created hamas to counter the PLO
I don’t think Israel is a smart country at all, quite the opposite actually. I think they are blood thirsty idiots. You clearly have a chip on your shoulder regarding this issue. What can’t be denied is the fact that Israel has billions of times the resources available to Palestine and an international network of wealthy Zionists working to undermine Palestine. This mismatch in resources is why Israel has out planned and outmanoeuvred Palestine so far. Palestine and Hamas have been fighting the wrong fight for 30 years now. The evidence for this is Israel’s continued encroachment on Palestinian territory at an increasing pace and today’s occupation of Gaza.
You know my arguments are strong that’s why you avoid them
I have not been avoiding anything dude. You are clearly not a native English speaker and I am having trouble understanding whether some of your points are bad English or bad logic.
That’s why you ignored that I said Israel was vilifying the plo and said the same exact think about them as they say against Hamas
The very next sentence you wrote is a perfect example of you not getting a coherent, comprehensible point across. The statement you made just doesn’t make any sense buddy, I’m not dodging anything, I was being polite by not saying anything until you decided to call me out.
This is an important moment for Palestine but you decided to repeat the bs about Hamas the biggest resistance group is simply a tool of Israel
I never said this and don’t believe that because Israel was involved in financing the precursor to Hamas 30 odd years ago that it makes them a tool of Israel today. The only way you seem to be able to argue against me is by putting words in my mouth and making things up.
Hamas is not pure in my mind
By “pure” I was not referring to their war crimes I was referring to the purity of their origin. You believe that Israel’s financing back then somehow contaminates the modern Hamas. This is where we disagree, I believe Israel’s early financing has no bearing on the group today, 30-40 years later.
The narrative that hamas was created simply to oppose the “secular” plo don’t work because Hamas collaborate with non Islamists .
Israel can make mistakes. Israel did not expect Hamas to become as strong and didn’t expect a revolution in Iran, making Iran the main backer of all major resistance groups toward Israel. As a settler-colonial power, the only choice is for resistance groups to be more violent and aggressive, but without retaliating on innocent civilians. The peaceful way was already tried. The situation in the West Bank is another failure of the peaceful method.
Without Hamas, Israel wouldn’t have been forced to remove the settlers and rely on external occupation to avoid casualties.
Islamophobia is the hate of Islam, not only Islamists, so Islamophobic people would still not support Palestine when the PLO is also majoritarily Muslim. Having non-Muslim resistance groups as the most powerful groups will never happen.
Wrong. If no countries had recognized and built relations with Israel after the Nakba, the genocide would never have happened.
Before Hamas even existed, the Western countries’ populations were more supportive of Israel than Palestine. Imagine saying “I support Israel” just after the Nakba, where 850,000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed, including 50,000 Christians.
Again, I never said this, I don’t know where you’re getting this from. I said that Israel assisted many non-secular groups, what became Hamas was merely one of them. Israel created nothing, they certainly assisted them in their early days.
Your assertion that because Hamas works with non Islamists they couldn’t have been created to oppose the secular PLO makes no logical sense. I don’t even understand how this point makes sense in your head?
You really just don’t understand what I am saying do you? You also clearly don’t understand the game Israel is playing here. You do not understand the multifaceted plan that the Israeli leadership is currently playing out to steal the entirely of Palestine. You are focusing on one small issue but completely missing the bigger picture. I have tried but I don’t think I can help you understand.
Again missing the point completely.
It’s like you don’t even understand the difference between the media landscapes then and now or how now that people can actually see what is going on their opinions are shifting. This is an important moment in Palestine’s future and you are choosing to fight a pointless fight on the early days of Hamas because in your mind Hamas mush be pure, any Israeli contamination, even funding in their early days somehow delegitimises Hamas. It does not delegitimise Hamas one bit, purity tests like this only harm revolution. Sometimes it takes a bad thing to kill an even worse thing.
It make perfect sense. Hamas is a resistance group which main goal is ending of the occupation. If Hamas agreed with PLO view of palestinian liberation they would definitely collaborate with them against Israel. I don’t even understand how this point do not makes sense in your head?
I perfectly understand what you are saying. You think Israel is such a very smart country that they can’t make mistakes and just created hamas to counter the PLO to gives them an perfect excuse to continue genocide and occupation . You know my arguments are strong that’s why you avoid them. That’s why you ignored that I said Israel was vilifying the plo and said the same exact think about them as they say against Hamas
This is an important moment for Palestine but you decided to repeat the bs about Hamas the biggest resistance group is simply a tool of Israel so people demand Hamas to be dissolved before Palestine get free. The usa can stop support for Israel today, Palestinians would still need armed resistance to end the occupation .
It does delegitimize Hamas because it make them look like simply a tool for israel and if it get dissolved Israel could no longer make excuses to continue genocide
Hamas is not pure in my mind . Just because they are a resistance group they can’t get away with war criminals. In a process of Truth and Reconciliation Hamas members involved in war crimes should be held accountable just like the israeli war criminals . I don’t support it’s political ideology
It does not magically invalidate the possibility Israel financed Hamas in their early days, if anything it makes it even more suspicious.
I don’t think Israel is a smart country at all, quite the opposite actually. I think they are blood thirsty idiots. You clearly have a chip on your shoulder regarding this issue. What can’t be denied is the fact that Israel has billions of times the resources available to Palestine and an international network of wealthy Zionists working to undermine Palestine. This mismatch in resources is why Israel has out planned and outmanoeuvred Palestine so far. Palestine and Hamas have been fighting the wrong fight for 30 years now. The evidence for this is Israel’s continued encroachment on Palestinian territory at an increasing pace and today’s occupation of Gaza.
I have not been avoiding anything dude. You are clearly not a native English speaker and I am having trouble understanding whether some of your points are bad English or bad logic.
The very next sentence you wrote is a perfect example of you not getting a coherent, comprehensible point across. The statement you made just doesn’t make any sense buddy, I’m not dodging anything, I was being polite by not saying anything until you decided to call me out.
I never said this and don’t believe that because Israel was involved in financing the precursor to Hamas 30 odd years ago that it makes them a tool of Israel today. The only way you seem to be able to argue against me is by putting words in my mouth and making things up.
By “pure” I was not referring to their war crimes I was referring to the purity of their origin. You believe that Israel’s financing back then somehow contaminates the modern Hamas. This is where we disagree, I believe Israel’s early financing has no bearing on the group today, 30-40 years later.